Hi all, this is the Icelandic Association of Chicago and I’m excited to speak today with Alexandria Leeper, Executive Director of the Iceland Sea Cluster International and Director of Research and Innovation. We’re going to learn about her job, what it’s like to work in Iceland as a foreigner, and also the health of our oceans.
Góðan daginn. Við erum Íslendingafélagið í Chicago og ég er spenntur að tala við Alexöndru Leeper, framkvæmdastjóra Íslenski Sjávarklasinn og forstöðumann rannsókna og nýsköpunar. Við ætlum að fræðast um starfið hennar, hvernig það er að vinna á Íslandi sem útlendingur, og heilsu hafsins okkar.
Welcome, Alexandra. All right, well, that was kind of a mouthful. I should have practiced that a little more.
You did very well.
Thank you. Thank you.
So, Alexandra, would you introduce yourself, please?
Alexandra:
Yeah, my name’s Alexandra. I’m originally from the UK, but I’ve been living in Iceland now seven years, which is flown by, and I moved here to study, originally, to study aquaculture, so fish farming and research. I fell in love with Iceland, so I stayed, and I carried out my [doctoral] trip there on fish farming and the circular economy. Then, three years ago, I started working at the Iceland Ocean Cluster, and I’m now the managing director there.
IAC:
Awesome. Well, so your career path has taken a lot of diverse turns. You’ve had a career in marine biology, from scuba diving to seismic exploration. How have these varied experiences shaped your approach to sustainability and innovation in this blue economy?
Alexandra:
That’s a really nice question. I think, from a distance, my career path looks like it’s been all over the place, but when I look back at it, I realize a couple of things have really been that red tape running through. So, I’ve always been in love with the ocean and the marine environment since I was a child. I started diving when I was 12 and instantly hooked. Through my various jobs, working with coastal defense, with seismic, with fish farming, and what I do now, which is all about really sustainable use of our seafood resources, it’s really all about how humans interact and can interact better with our ocean environment. It’s been all over the place and lots of different experiences, but it’s really shaped by my desire for a healthy and sustainable ocean.
IAC:
Nice. So, you’ve also published a bit of research in your career. In the 2014 article, “The Application of Ecosystem Thresholds and Management of Tropical Coral Reefs,” what did you learn about protecting coral reefs?
Alexandra:
Yeah, this is actually the first article I ever published, and I was still studying in the UK. So, I was working, this time I was working in Singapore for an environmental consultancy. And what it taught me about tropical coral reefs is really how sensitive they are, how important they are as a nursery environment for our fisheries and really for healthy ecosystems, not just in tropical regions, but all over the world. And also that we can only, the idea of ecosystem threshold is that we can only push the ecosystems so far before it changes, which is a natural tipping point to no longer be able to sustain the life that it has been sustaining.
So, this was quite a wake-up call to me as well, particularly as a diver spending time in those coral reef environments at that time. And knowing that what I was seeing impacts like blast fishing and coral bleaching, that really we were just putting too much pressure on these ecosystems, and we were reaching these tipping points where these coral reefs couldn’t sustain the life that we need them to for the health of our planet. So, this is a really, yeah, it was a very educational piece for me to learn.
IAC:
And in your University of Plymouth dissertation titled “Shore Parallel Breakwaters, an Interdisciplinary Analysis,” could you summarize the key findings on coastal flood risk management, the methodologies used to assess the impact of sandy shore ecosystems, and the implication of future coastal policy?
Alexandra:
Yeah, and actually this kind of spun off the same idea that if we change our ecosystem too much, it can’t sustain the life that it should be. So, the idea here is when we use coastal defense to protect our shorelines and protect our urban populations, when we do that, while it can sometimes be a necessity, it also changes the kind of animals that can live there, and it changes how water flows in the area, how sand flows in the area and builds up. So, it was really interesting to see that when we put these coastal defenses in, it means that we lose a lot of the biodiversity, a lot of the life that lives in the sand, that is food for our fisheries.
So, here it was really a discussion of the balance of how much do we need to protect an urban environment, and how much do we need to protect the ecosystem itself. So, it was really interesting to see if we can predict better ways to do that as well. So, it’s really all about, can we limit our impact?
IAC:
So, unscripted question, does that create some winners and some losers with the species?
Alexandra:
Yeah, absolutely. So, we often, in these kind of studies, when we know human activity or human structures are changing or are likely to change the environment, we look for what’s called indicator species. So, we might lose some of those more sensitive species, let’s say, in scarce marine snails, more snails or small crustaceans, for example, that live in the sand are quite sensitive, whereas we’ll see more of these very tolerant species, often things like nematode worms — very glamorous job, I spent a lot of time looking at a microscope looking at worms. But they are, or necessarily call them a winner species, but they tend to be those that are more tolerant to environmental stress. So, they would, more of them, as an indicator that there’s some negative changes happening. And we’re reaching those kind of ecosystems, tipping points too.
IAC:
And moving on to your PhD research on Atlantic salmon, or Atlantic salmon aqua culture, was awarded by the Norwegian University of Life Sciences, was awarded by the Norwegian University of Life Sciences. Sorry, cannot speak today.
Alexandra:
There are a lot of really complicated words there that I often avoid as well.
IAC:
Oh, yes, the editing here is going to be on myself, or (inaudible…) straight out. Can you tell us more about your multidisciplinary approach and its impact to sustainable aqua culture practices?
Alexandra:
Yes, this is kind of building on my desire to have both a healthy environment and a healthy, a safe human population. And it kind of made a lot of sense to me to think about fish farming, because we know we put too much pressure on our wild fisheries. I was seeing more and more, particularly in my job in seismic and working offshore, a lot of human impact in the ocean. So I started thinking about, OK, well, how can we reduce that impact? And for me at that time, the kind of logical thought was, OK, what about farming fish on land? So I focused really on land-based salmon farming. Salmon farming is one of the most popular species in the Nordics, in Iceland and Norway. So what I wanted to understand is, OK, we know we’re going to need more farmed fish to sustain our global future population. How can we do it better? Can we change what we feed fish? We feed them, for example, more sustainable sources of proteins, like, for example, instead of soybean meal and instead of fish meal, can we feed them more insect meal or plant-based meals?
And then this multidisciplinary part is, can we feed them these different kinds of proteins and what impact does it have? Does it change how they grow? Does it change how they behave and their welfare? Are they more or less stressed? And how does this affect their gut bacteria? And this link between what we now know is like the gut brain access to our gut microbiome, ours, and fish, has a big impact on the rest of our health and our development.
IAC:
And this as well, you not to sound too crass or… the economy, but this also produces a better product, like a healthier animal, I would imagine leads to better tasting, better meat for humans.
Alexandra:
Yeah, and I think I don’t think it’s a crass question at all, because I think everything that we do in terms of food production, in terms of environment, it does have to make economic sense, otherwise it doesn’t stick. I actually want to spend a lot of my time focusing on now. So the question part of the question I was asking is, if we make these changes, if we make a more sustainable salmon, is it also more nutritionally interesting? Is it also a better quality fish that was definitely part of this research? And certainly with having a farmed fish, we know what I’m not saying that our culture doesn’t have plenty of those challenges and problems. Absolutely. It does have the first one to admit that. But with farmed fish, we know where it’s been its whole life, controlled what it’s eaten, if controlled the environment that it’s been in. So in that way, we can know very well and control very well the quality and the nutritional content of that fish with the consumer. So this is super important because the economy pays a big role in that decision making.
IAC:
All right. Moving on to, shall we say, the more challenging topic. You’re living in Iceland now. Yeah. And so how did you come to learn? So can you kind of, you told us a bit about before how you came to Iceland, but how has your journey on learning the language been? How do you study? How do you practice? Hvenær komst þú á Íslandi? Er það erfitt að læra íslensku? Hvernig lærir þú tungumálið?
Alexandria:
And I’ll take it in English, I guess. But it is, I think every learner’s relationship with the language is very different. Like I said, I’ve been here now seven years, seven years this February. And I had lived in other countries before I came to Iceland. I moved around a lot and I lived in Spanish speaking countries and French speaking countries and had a belief that I was quite good at languages. But I could speak both of those to a very good level in a fairly short period of time. And then I came to Iceland thinking, OK, this sounds like a really cool language. Perfect. I’m going to move here and just, you know, it will happen like it happens with French and Spanish. And it did not. It’s a much more complicated language. It was a way cool for me. I think it’s a very beautiful language. But I do think also the coming from English as a mother tongue. And I think I’ve listened to a couple of your previous podcasts and you talk about the challenge of in English, we don’t have these gender or we don’t use any more gendered nouns and we we don’t conjugate in the same way. And we don’t have a being like these cases. So just the concepts we don’t intuitively have in English speaking languages. And some of them I could gather from Latin languages. OK, so I’m going to have gender. Sure. We can conjugate. That’s no problem. But I think I think I’m not incorrect to say this, but with Icelandic every single word, there are about 14 different ways to say it, depending on on the case and the tense and the. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s that exactly. And in and of itself, that is quite an overwhelming point to start on. And I think it’s interesting because when I came here and I did start to learn a little bit, I went to like a level one course when I was first when I first got the first six months. I was like, OK, I’m going to stay here. OK, I’m going to do level one Icelandic. And there is because the grammar is complicated. It’s a very difficult language to get started in. And it does take quite a bit of perseverance. And what I will say is that I now like in the seven year mark, I’ve put aside my desire to be perfect with the grammar. I put aside my desire to if anything close to speaking perfectly. And my focus is very much on being understood, understanding and the vocabulary because I even Icelanders the struggle with the grammar. So I think that that fills me with a little bit of hope. Yes. It’s OK for me. I think there’s something very rewarding. I’m now at the point and I’m I would not call myself a fluent speaker, but I’m at the point like last night I went out for a dinner with my colleagues for two and a half hours and we only spoke Icelandic. And for sure, my Icelandic was imperfect, but we didn’t have to change language and I could be involved in the conversation. I felt I could get the jokes. So I think for me, that is quite has been quite a milestone, really, this change. But it is a difficult language to learn. And I think you do need to break past a certain level in order for to be able to use it here because some of the Icelanders do speak excellent English, particularly those under 50 years old. They speak perfect English. You do have to persevere to a point where it’s not just much easier for everyone to switch to English for you. When you go to the stores, you’re so proud of yourself because you said {Icelandic}. And the straight away switched English. And now mostly I’ve got to pass that point, which is not always.
IAC:
So if I can ask for a bit of personal advice, I plan to be there, you know, like I said, for a month. And I would like to be in situations where, you know, maybe going to the store, coffee shop, restaurant, I would like to be engaged and stay in the language. And I think that I’m right at that maybe A2 level where I’m functional. I like the term functional, not fluent. I really like that term. And also, too, I think when people have to realize that when you’re learning a language, there’s just certain I love this phrase, islands of competence, that there’s going to be some domains that you’re just you’re there. You’re like you deal with it every day, every week. So like that’s that’s that’s what you’re good at. That’s which that’s the your knowledge zone. Deviate from that and, you know, you’re lost. So could is there like, I guess for someone like in my shoes, is there any advice you can give as someone who’s there living from another country? What how what are the situations where I can like get those small wins ordering a coffee or, you know, what have you?
Alexandra:
Yeah, that’s a really good question. And I think you’re already off to a good start by not being a Reykjavik, but being outside of the main city. But automatically, you’re putting yourself in a situation, I think, where you people maybe do allow you to persevere more with Icelandic. But in general, I would say it would be easier to get practice in there. I would say picking one or two phrases that you want to practice. And I think being a little bit brave because I think definitely getting out of your mouth is one thing. But then continuing to be in just to give you an example of the situations where I’ve had where I’ve ordered my cup of… And then that person will switch to English with me, even though I’ve been understood and I’ve said my piece. So I will either I will say, you know, “ég vil tala íslenksu” or “Má ég æfa íslensku” can I just practice Icelandic? Or I will just continue in Icelandic and sometimes they’ll continue in English. I will be speaking all two opposite languages together, but I think persevering and most of the time if you say politely, “Ef það er í lagi æfi ég íslenksu” – if it’s okay, I’d like to practice my Icelandic. Then normally people will be quite happy to practice with you.
IAC:
Excellent. Thank you. I’m going to use that. So thank you very much. Yeah. So kind of back to the scripted questions. That’s a great question. Well, thank you. Thank you. Sometimes they just come and I forget that not everything has to follow the script, but just as a podcast or it’s conversation.
So global experience having worked all over the world. What unique perspectives do you bring to your current role at the Iceland Ocean Cluster and the Iceland, the Iceland, the College of Fisheries? As you’ve traveled the world, what are those small nuggets that you’ve just brought with you that you can never leave behind?
Alexandra:
That’s a really nice question. I think it probably impacts the way I think about everything. But I think having lived in lots of different places and called lots of different places home, I’m very aware that different cultures think about things from a different perspective and also that you know how you would express it, but the things that when you live in one place and you haven’t left, you don’t think about how it doesn’t cross your mind that these could possibly be different in another place and the people’s kind of point of references are completely different. So I think that helps me to often put myself in an international mindset and maybe see challenges from the external perspective, even when I’m there. And I like to think at least that it’s made me a strong communicator, because even though in the international context, I am working in English in my mother tongue, I spend a lot of concentration and time thinking about phrasing things that people who are English is not their first language, we can have a productive conversation and they can understand me. And I think that’s helped me communicate my science and my research as well. And I think it allows me to have quite productive and powerful conversations because I’m also thinking, okay, what’s their point of reference and their point of understanding? Let me try and connect to what’s familiar with them. So I would say actually want anything maybe not. I hope it is a unique quality as a scientist that I’m most strong communicated because of this international experience, I think.
IAC:
Yeah, that’s wonderful. That is a golden nugget that people probably don’t get from most MBA programs and international business. Moving on to the blue bioeconomy. So as a passionate advocate for the blue bioeconomy, what do you see are the most pressing challenges and opportunities for this field, particularly so globally and in Iceland?
Alexandra:
Yeah, I think this is a huge question and a really good one. I think one of the I’ll say it because it’s also the challenge I spend a lot of my time thinking about as well, but it is the way that we use our resources. And we have a huge global population. This naturally has a huge impact on our demand for food, for energy. It puts a lot of pressure on, well not just our ocean ecosystems, but all of our ecosystems. So this is the biggest challenge of how can we most sustainably, most cleverly, both environmentally, sustainably and also economically sustainably use our resources to kind of maximum benefit as well as looking after the environment for the future. I think that’s the biggest challenge and I think this is definitely global. I think in Iceland, there is a really, the base of the economy, the base of the culture really is the fisheries, the community, the society is very close to the ocean. There is a natural respect for the resource and a natural almost circular economy thinking and trying to look after this seafood for the next generation.
But I think uniquely in Iceland, being an island nation, it can also be quite challenging to scale good ideas, maybe ideas that maybe can be more environmentally and economically sustainable, and we can build a new technology or develop a new product, but actually scaling those products or scaling those ideas so that they can have the really big beneficial impact in a small island nation that is geographically quite remote, this can be quite challenging. So yeah, I think there are many challenges that you can pick from the blue economy, but certainly sustainable use of the resources and reducing waste and really Iceland particularly scaling those ideas to have the benefits they can have. I would say these are the two challenges.
IAC:
So do you think Iceland being such a small nation there that you guys could also act as a lab essentially for, you know, and basically produce something that other countries and other industries could emulate because of the size, because of the size you guys are so nimble you can turn on a dime, per se.
Alexandra:
Yeah, absolutely. I think Iceland in many ways is an ideal test bed because being small, and also being the naturally the culture and the weather and the volcanic activity that you just can’t control. It’s a very dynamic and if an adaptable population in the mindset is very adaptable so innovation gets a lot of space to be to be tested out here and there’s a lot of credence put into good ideas. And I think that this is certainly the case with the land based agriculture which has brought what has brought me here, like, developing new innovations with this. But even I haven’t mentioned it to you before but I have my own startup company as well and we work with the data center industry that’s really is growing. And so, yeah, and so, for this as well.
IAC:
Okay, well, that might need, if you’re open to it that might need to be a part two.
Alexandra:
I would absolutely.
IAC:
So yes, let’s talk about that offline. So I wanted to thank you very much for being here today talking about the blue economy talking about your experiences of moving and learning this really tough and difficult language. I personally resonated with me greatly. Everyone wanted to say thank you. And by the way, if anyone out there is struggling to learn this language and needing a chance to practice just a reminder that the Icelandic Association of Chicago runs to practice groups noon Chicago five o’clock Iceland. Remember, you know, US changes times frequently, but for right now anyway it’s noon and GMT 5pm and that’s on Wednesdays and Saturdays, just look at our website Iceland Chicago.org for more information. Alexandra, thank you very much.