Hello everyone, IAC is talking with the Ingraft Foundation in Poland, which is working towards social and intercultural inclusion by advocating for inclusion, accessibility, and universal design.
We know this can be said to be a strange topic for this forum because, well, podcast are an audio first format. But this is not our first time we’ve talked about deafness, and we will include a transcript page on our website. One of IAC’s goals is to support cross-cultural promotion and understanding.
Secondly, the Ingraft Foundation is based in Poland, but one can’t ignore Polish culture and the generation of immigrants that are part of the very fabric of Chicago. The Polish Museum of America established in 1935, the Polish Triangle, the Copernicus Center, and the Taste of Poland Festival, which is the largest multi-day festival celebrating Polish culinary, cultural, and other aspects in the United States.
And also, in Iceland, Rúv, the State Broadcasting Service, routinely publishes language programming reflecting the growing use of Polish in Iceland.
Góðan daginn. Við erum frá Íslendingafélagið í Chicago og ætlum að ræða við Ingraft-samtökin frá Póllandi sem vinna að aðgengi (accessibility) og alhliða hönnun (universal design).
Nú eru hlaðvörp hljóðmiðill en þetta er ekki í fyrsta skipti sem við ræðum heyrnarleysi. Þessi samtök eru í Póllandi en það eru sterk tengsl á milli Chicago og Póllands. Á Íslandi er RÚV að búa til meiri og meiri dagskrá á pólsku. Við tökum vel á móti og bjóðum velkomin Dagmara (Dagmöru) og Magda (Mögdu) frá Ingraft-samtökunum.
So, Dagmara, Magda, can you introduce yourselves? How long have you been with Ingraft?
Ingraft:
Hello, my name is Dagmara. I represent the Communication and Anthropology Foundation Ingraft. We are working as a hearing and deaf people team with diverse language skills. I feel comfortable in Polish language, Magda in English, so we are a good combination for this interview.
I’m the Cultural Anthropologist and Art Historian Educator, Curator of Cultural Projects. I’m working with Inclusive Design for Learning and Inclusive Space Issues in the Museum of Silesia, and on University of Silesia, where I’m running my PhD project in the doctoral school. My research is focused on relations between sensory, perception, language, identity, in the medical and cultural models of disability. I love art and all forms of diversity in nature and culture, and I’m a part of Ingraft Foundation.
And hello, I’m Magda. I’m a historian and I work as an educator in the Silesian Museum together with Dagmara, so we work together and we work together in the foundation. Previous to that, I lived in Australia for several years and I worked front of house in the museum there, and I’m interested in diversity, but regarding cultures and nationalities based on my experience. I like all the outdoor activities, and with the Ingraft Foundation, we’re pretty much since the beginning, so since 2023.
IAC:
Wow. Okay, so about that, could you give us a bit more of the background, inspiration, and history of the foundation? How did this foundation come to be? What inspired this foundation to focus on social and intercultural inclusion, neurodiversity? Can you guys speak to that a bit?
Ingraft:
Personally, the idea and the urge to set up the foundation began several years ago when I realized how terrible I would feel if I didn’t feel free to express myself linguistically in everyday communication. Then I met Deaf people, Michał Justycki and Kinga Hołda-Justycka. Now, today, they are members of our foundation, and it was thanks to them that I became aware of the problem of the devaluation of sign language in the hearing society and the invisibility of deafness. I like to think, speak, write, act, express myself in Polish. My Deaf colleagues feel the same way about Polish sign language, but we are not existing in society on equal terms. I have previously worked with blind people, with people with the autism spectrum, and I have learned how they perceive art, describe art and space, but my contact with Deaf people brings me to question about the role of language identity and hierarchy of senses in the social system and culture. It was very important. Many years ago, Ludwig Wittgenstein noticed that we play with the cultural meanings of words. Even if we are able to learn a foreign language, if we don’t know the culture of the users, we will not be able to feel what those people feel, think, and need. To understand culture, you have to learn language, observe how people communicate, analyze and practice language within that culture, and try to be a part of this cultural “orchestra”, something like this. This is a key point in anthropology.
I am the anthropologist , so I feel it very hard. That’s why deaf culture in global terms is unknown to many hearing people. Many hearing people have no idea about sign language and Deaf culture heritage. I call it in my private dictionary, the relationship between the “cosmos of Gutenberg and the galaxy of Gallaudet”. As you probably know, the Gallaudet was the educator who founded the first and still the most important university with the sign language program. So this Gutenberg and Gallaudet (metaphore) are like the world of oral written history against the world of silent sign history. And the history of deaf education under the pressure of the speaking and writing majority of hearing people. As an anthropologist, I wanted to make people aware that language and culture are part of our nature. It is not possible to throw them away. We can throw away some habits, some traditions sometimes, but language practices and language generally are part of our identity. And they are also connected to our neurobiology and our sensory abilities.
As we can say today, language and linguistic practices are embodied. Whatever you are, hearing, deaf, blind or non-verbal communicator. And that is why Ingraft was created. To make people aware of neurodiversity in communication skills and the right to natural expression and access to information, education, job and culture in public spaces.
We started working together as a hearing and deaf team in the participatory project “Głusza”, “Deaf Land” in the Museum of Silesia in 2017. And after years, we decided to develop this idea together outside the museum in our private time because we all know that it is needed. So it is my point of view. Magda, you can add something.
You summed it up really well. I just want to say that I witnessed the thinking process because I joined them when they were sort of like starting doing the works towards the ‘Głusza’ exhibition. So I witnessed all of that happening, thinking about the foundation, how it was sort of just growing in Dagmara’s mind. And pretty much no one knew how to run a foundation, how to deal with it. But we just jumped on board with Dagmara and here we are. I think she just made it happen pretty much.
IAC:
No, that’s really cool. And going back to Gallaudet, those who know me, that has a very special place in my heart. I know that campus well.
So moving on to your projects and initiatives and collaborations, can you share some examples of the foundation’s projects and/or collaborators? And how are these received in the Polish community?
Ingraft:
So I’ll jump on that one. So we’ve been lucky so far because whoever we spoke to about our projects, they really like the ideas and we are working together with the Academy of Fine Arts in Katowice. We work with boys at the ‘Secret Project’. Our members of the foundation, they are graphic designers, so we sort of like still have fresh ideas that need to be tuned in and to be presented further. But for now, last year we went to the train expo with one of our foundations, Suma Solutions. .
And we want to create maybe not a project, but more like a campaign that we have to change the communication system at the train stations or the bus stations. I guess everyone can count how many times the PA system was not working or it was too loud outside to hear the announcement. So it would be best to have a visual communication system. So for that, the inspiration we found with Klaudia, our board member, the student project which she did. So she made a little pamphlet or like a sort of book with hints or things that you have to think about while you’re traveling on the train. And it was supposed to make the communication on board or at the ticketing desk a little bit easier.
And we also take the inspiration from, I’m not sure if it was London or just UK generally, it was on the LinkedIn information panel that one of the stations has an information panel with sign language. So these are the projects that we are working towards more with the educational or informational purposes, not technology because we’re not tech savvy. So we’re going into more education and communication pretty much.
If I can add something that we cooperate with Academy of Fine Arts. It is really important for our education because we want to build together the educational program for students with inclusive design and also for teenagers in gymnasium. So we want to combine the knowledge about accessibility with the design, inclusive design and designers, creative, fresh ideas.
IAC:
Excellent. Okay. So looking forward to the future, how do you envision continuing to address communication challenges and promote understanding through the work of the foundation? And can individuals in organizations interested in supporting your cause contribute to raising awareness or fostering additional dialogue? How can others get involved with your organization?
Ingraft:
I think once again, I’ll be circulating around the educational aspects because the engagement we would like to have or the vision is that we share educational value of our actions. So for example, like, you know, sometimes people think that you put some, you put Braille’ alphabet or you put some text and you know, you’ve got vision impaired people, if I can say sorted, deaf people sorted, you know, you don’t have to think about everything else.
But on the other hand, people, most of people around the world, I believe, they don’t know that for deaf people, sign language is the first language and the written language, the national written language is the second language. So not necessarily it will make them understand better what we have to say. So I really would like to have that educational impact that we have to think about inclusive design as Dagmar is working with the students to incorporate all the knowledge we’ve got, the technology and the tools to sort of like make everything happen. Like accessibility doesn’t mean that we have to work always towards either deafness or vision impaired. We can work towards also and look after the elderly in our community, people who are international travelers and they don’t understand, for example, Polish at our train station, just have that universal design and the educational aspects all based around that pretty much.
IAC:
Excellent. And Dagmara, could you describe, forgive my pronunciation, the ‘Glusza’ projects, which if I understand correctly, focuses on non-material cultural heritage related to the deaf community.
Ingraft:
Yes, the “Głusza” project, which translated as “Deaf Land”, was the first exhibition in which Deaf people were presented as cultural minority and not as a group with disabilities. And it was very important for us as for curators. And the whole space of exhibition and also publications was presented in phonic written languages, Polish and English, and visual special languages. It was Polish Sign Language and International Sign system for Deaf people from Europe. So the team of curators was both hearing and Deaf. We were worked together to combine the anthropological point of view and Deaf experiences. And this non-material cultural heritage of the Deaf community is unknown to both hearing and many Deaf people in Poland. So that’s why we wanted to show it on exhibition.
We wanted to show the history of sign languages, arts in sign languages, critical art against audism, masterpieces of Deaf painters, Deaf history and history of emancipation of Deaf community. And it was a very important process of rising awareness about the Deaf community and sign language users in Poland. So it was a big project. But the most visible piece was the exhibition.
IAC:
That’s great. Well, I gotta say thank you guys, because like you’ve been so, all of your answers have been so informative. I’m going to combine the next three scripted questions. And so one, if you don’t mind, could both of you explain what the museum means to you guys? Can you explain about how Ingraft merges into the museum and how maybe you can take the projects out of the museum into the community again?
Ingraft:
Yeah, okay.
IAC:
All right. Little, little, little, little curveball. I apologize.
Ingraft:
I think that … maybe… for me… I’m working in the museum and also on University and in the foundation. In museum I run my PhD project because it is implementation project. So I cooperate with university and with museum. But the projects which we run as the foundation is based on education. So we networking people, we networking institutions, companies.Sometimes it is the most important thing – to networking this institutions, these people, to create something good. That’s why we cooperate with Academy of Fine Arts and make projects with students on Academy of Fine Arts.
And for me, the museum, what I understand through the museum, it’s the people who visit. If a museum is not open to diversity of the visitors, then people will not come. So a museum is the place where they should feel comfortable. Well, not necessarily because museum has also a part where they have to also undertake the difficult topics. So sometimes people may not feel comfortable at an exhibition and it also is the part of what museum is expected. But sometimes the museum has a, maybe not a narrow path that you can follow and foundation like Ingraft gives a little bit more flexibility and we can do things our way, the way we think it’s suitable and we don’t have to think how we can impact, for example, the museum by our actions. So we do it completely separately, but it also, it will intertwine at some stage. That’s for sure.
IAC:
Next I want to move on to about the article, a bit of background. A language partner of mine translated this article into English from Polish for me. And it was quite an interesting read and that has been the impetus for this whole interview, which led me to the foundation, which led me to the museum and just the interest in what you guys are doing. So I was drawn to this organization by the English translation of an article that explored the metaphorical significance of animals with albinism being often deaf and relates to the communication challenges faced by humans, particularly within the deaf community. It delves into the idea that hearing culture can be deaf towards the needs and experiences and emphasizes the importance of language and bridging divides. The author reflects on the power of language and its role in understanding different perspectives and realities. So how does this metaphor of white animals being often deaf with albinism, as described in this article, how does this contribute a fostering dialogue and awareness about communication challenges? How does the exhibition project “Deaf Land” and the metaphor of the blue whale resonate with the mission of the Ingrath Foundation?
Ingraft:
The metaphor of white animals is inspired by the novel by Czech writer Ivana Myšková. But in my article, it is a metaphor, so I just use it. And I want to show that we are diverse and each of us lives in idiosyncratic cloud of languages, images, imagination, habits, knowledge, and we are separate and different. And on the one hand, language gives us intimate space of inner life. On the other hand, it is the common platform of communication. And whether you are hearing, deaf, blind, neurodiverse, speak, sign, or just use pictures to communicate, you are a part of society. And we need tools to communicate and this communication should be without barriers and without hierarchy.
So that’s why this metaphor was important for me in the context of sensory and linguistic anthropology. And the second metaphor, the whale metaphor about the world’s loneliest whale, Blue 52, is really concrete because this whale is concrete. He existed. His story is true. And all the stories of loneliness, of deaf children and deaf adults are also true. We had a lot of interviews where people show their solitude because of language. And so on the one hand, the foundation is almost like the whale in the ocean because we try to communicate important things to society, try to change the bad education system and social awareness. We want to be heard by society. On the other hand, we are the team that hears this voice of deaf people and people with different form of communication, nonverbal communication, for example. We hear it very clearly and try to explain it, to communicate it with different people. So I think the history of the education of the deaf and the deprivation of the deaf is the part of civilization that the hearing should also learn. So this metaphor we can interpret like that.
IAC:
Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate this. This has been great. Again, you’ve answered the question so nicely and roundly that I was able to skip and compress them together. I want to thank and acknowledge a lot of people here. This interview would not have been possible without a ton of help. Polish and international sign are not in my toolbox. I speak English, I’m learning Icelandic and I’m an ASL interpreter.
For the record, I wanted to mention to the audience here that no, there actually is not a universal sign language. Each country and sometimes multiple regions have multiple different signed languages in them and there are multiple communities within those signed languages. There is an international version of sign language but it’s more akin to something like Esperanto. So it’s not exactly widely used except within the context of international gatherings. And even then, it’s mostly functional.
I wanted to thank Lukasz for the original translation of this article where this whole idea started. I wanted to thank, forgive me with the pronunciation of these names. Would one of you care to read them out for me? Magda,
Ingraft:
Magdalena Ciez, that’s me. Yep, that’s me.
IAC:
So you will be handling the translation of English to Polish?
Ingraft:
Yes, and I’ll fix my mistakes as I go along if you don’t mind.
IAC:
No worries. We’re all learning; it’s all in the raw. And then Karolina Rogowska will be handling the Polish to Polish sign language and Kinga, Kinga Hołda-Justycka, will be handling the version of international sign. So we look forward to the final product of this interview because it will be in multiple languages and multiple formats signed and spoken.
Link to our website: www.ingraft.pl
Learn more
Głusza, red. Dagmara Stanosz, Muzeum Śląskie 2022
https://muzeumslaskie.pl/produkt/glusza/
Głusza, red. English subtitle (Ewelina Hoare) and International Sign version (Damian Rzeźniczak)
https://muzeumslaskie.pl/glusza/
Dictionary of Art in Polish sign Language, Michał Justycki
Słownik Sztuki w PJM
Deaf design?
Wyzwania projektowania inkluzywnego na przykładzie wystawy „Głusza” w Muzeum Śląskim (Deaf design?
Challenges of inclusive design on the example of the Deaf exhibition at the Silesian Museum), FORMY XYZ, Dagmara Stanosz
https://formy.xyz/artykul/deaf-design-wyzwania-projektowania-inkluzywnego-na-przykladzie-wystawy-glusza-w-muzeum-slaskim